How do I into racecar?

"TSLA" (TeslaMotors) 10/16/2013 at 22:19 • Filed to: becauseracecar, formula

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I hear you don't need any karting experience to get into Formula Ford. Would that be best since I'm already 18? Just invest in a Formula Ford car instead of having to buy both? I can hill climb with the car also right? Also, where the hell am I supposed to find a team. Can't I just do this by myself?

Also whats the difference between Formula Vee, Ford, Mazda,...?

And I live near Mid-Ohio so I could go get my track license from there and put in some time.

I apologize if these are stupid questions. I would still like the answers.

scoob > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:22

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I dunno anything about any of those (I'm 17) except the team bit. Wouldn't it be better to have a team for maintenance/repairs/etc.?

For Sweden > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:23

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Can you into kart?

If so, go kart plox.

TSLA > scoob 10/16/2013 at 22:27

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I think its a requirement but idk. Thats why I'm asking.

TSLA > For Sweden 10/16/2013 at 22:31

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Why not just start at Formula Ford? I saw one for sale under 10k

For Sweden > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:32

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Because holy poverty Batman

TSLA > For Sweden 10/16/2013 at 22:36

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butwhatdoesthatmeaaaannnnn?

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:38

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You need money. A lot of it. Like, enough to support your own team by yourself if need be. That includes mechanics, pit crew, transportation, spare parts, the lot. The guys in Formula Ford didn't just hop in the cockpit one day out of the blue, most of them have been karting since they were ten years old and have sponsorships that pay for all the things required for racing. The only reason they're doing that is they're banking on the fact that the kid is good enough to go pro, with their company name on the side of his car. Anyone else isn't worth their time. Even if you drive like Senna's bastard love-child with Michael Schumacher you need money. Furthermore, they have eight years of driving experience on you. That's not something you can make up for in a summer or two.

Trust me on this: I tried to get into karting at a young age, but being one of three children of schoolteachers we didn't have anywhere near the amount of money required to even just run a kart for a season. Imagine scaling that up tenfold, and then tenfold again for each successive formula. The fastest drivers on track swap out parts every race, sometimes whole drivetrains at a time, and unless your parents are willing to pay massive amounts of money to finance your dream, it's kind of just that, a dream. If you're near Mid-Ohio, maybe try getting into spec-Miata racing to begin with if you want to race in a competitive series.

TSLA > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/16/2013 at 22:47

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Hypothetically, if I was able to obtain a high paying job, could I be able to get into racing at an older age when I had the money to fund it?

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:51

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Money and lots of it. Alex Lloyd wrote a post on the front page a while back on the money side of getting into pro-racing.

Random Commenter > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:54

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You might want to look into U.S. Legend Cars ... The cars are pretty inexpensive. They range from about $5,000+ used, to about $13,000 for a band new car . As far as I know, there is no previous racing experience required to get started. I'd suggest looking into that. A good page to start at might be this one .

If you are unfamiliar with Legend cars, they are 5/8th's scale racing cars designed to look like cars from the 1930's, and are powered by a Yamaha FJ1200 motorcycle engine, which makes around 115-125 hp, running through a sequential transmission. They're small, light, and quick.

TSLA > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/16/2013 at 22:54

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Can't find it. Can you link me?

TSLA > Random Commenter 10/16/2013 at 22:56

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Looks very cool. Will check it out now.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 22:59

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Oh, at an older age, there's a definite possibility. You can buy your way into racing, just look at Max Chilton at Marussia and all the GTE-Am competitors at Le Mans. You may have heard the term "gentleman drivers"? That would be who you're talking about: older, amateur individuals with large amounts of disposable income who use that income to fund racing endeavors. It just comes down to how much you want to spend. Spec-Miata racers for example often have engineer dayjobs, while the higher-level racers in things like Grand-Am and the ALMS have finance backgrounds for the big-money required in those series. You need either a large amount of money or a large amount of talent to go racing, and for the talent portion to apply you have to put in your time at a very young age. Not to discourage you, obviously, I'm just pointing out my own observations. You could totally go racing as an adult, it's just a bit less heroic than the young boy-racer with a lead foot and guts of steel clawing his way up the ranks, isn't it.

Random Commenter > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 23:11

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Glad I could help.

TSLA > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/16/2013 at 23:13

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Thanks for this. Very informative.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 23:37

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I have this same question, sort of. I've always wanted to get into Rally. Is it any more expensive that Formula something? Just something I've always wanted to do.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 23:41

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You're very welcome. Don't let any of that discourage you, though: if you want to race, you can, you'll just never do it for a living. Many people's favorite hobbies are ones they can't make money on, and somehow knowing that gives the activity some sort of intrinsic value all its own. You go racing because you fucking love it, not because you want to get paid. Besides, racing politics suck. Just ask Mark Webber...

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > TSLA 10/16/2013 at 23:56

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Cost of entry into a car pales in comparison to the cost to actually run competitively. Spares, labor, travel, entry fees...it's more insane than you can imagine. Even a "cheap" series costs a median level salary to run for a season.

Dusty Ventures > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 10/17/2013 at 01:40

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I can help you with this, I'm actually at a rally in Michigan right now. Unfortunately I have recce in less than five hours so I must into bed, but after the rally I'd be glad to answer any questions you have. In the meantime if you check dustyventures.kinja.com/tag/therallytakeover you'll find a lot of rally stuff I've written this year, including a behind the scenes series that gives tips about getting into rally and explains what happens on a rally weekend. And if you have twitter you can follow me @DVMSteve, I'll be tweeting updates from this current rally. Shoot me a tweet anytime and I'll respond.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Dusty Ventures 10/17/2013 at 01:49

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This is fantastic and I may just create a Twitter account just for this! Good luck!

Senna_ > TSLA 10/17/2013 at 07:38

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Short answer: buy a kart

Long answer:

Forget the internet at first. Go to an event (both kart and FF) wander around the pits, be very polite, ask guys how much, tell them that you are interested in starting and ask what a realistic budget would be. Ask them what they know now that they did not know when they started. Ask what the most common mistake is as a startup rookie.

People in amateur racing are super nice and willing to give advice and chat. Use this resource more than the internet

Don't forget transportation/lodging/food/tires for a race weekend (ask the guys about that too)

..then buy a kart

Thank them profusely.

Senna_ > Senna_ 10/17/2013 at 07:40

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Also the same guys in the above will know where to get a good used setup

Senna_ > Senna_ 10/17/2013 at 07:41

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oh yeah- don't forget method of transportation of your race car or kart and fuel for the transport

Senna_ > TSLA 10/17/2013 at 07:43

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A good friend just sold his race car and bought a kart.

He is a professional Engineer and could not afford a race car. The costs go so far beyond the purchase price of the car. Brakes and tires alone in amateur racing cover a season of karting.

Senna_ > Senna_ 10/17/2013 at 07:46

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one more thing to ask the participants.

How much track time do you get per weekend? You will likely get double the seat time in a kart weekend.

pachood - Cheap rent; fast cars. > TSLA 10/17/2013 at 09:06

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This is all so wrong.

Have you ever done a track day?

Buy a car that you can track and beat to snot. Buy a prepped miata or something that will be cheap on consumables, reliable, and you can afford to write off.

A FF is not your best bet for a beginner car. I'v been running a formula vee for ~5 years (although well modded beyond vintage rules-built to fmod autox spec) as well as a Spec Racer Ford, and I know in my current ability I would have a hard time hanging in FF. I jumped into my vee as a first race car, and ran a few autox's before going to a road course.. I thought I was pretty fast until I drove a well prepped street car and got my ass handed to me. Basically what Im saying is; if you start RACING in a formula ford you will probably write it off in your first year :)

Get something cheap, probably a miata or another track prepped car, do HPDE's for a while, then buy a low dollar formula car like a FV or a F500.

Good luck finding a "team" unless you have serious connections. Just staying competitive will cost you 4-10G a year in just consumables (engine, trans, rubber, brakes etc) and thats if your stretching things to the bitter end. The whole "sponsor" thing is a pipe dream.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > TSLA 10/17/2013 at 11:24

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Here. Its a bit depressing - http://jalopnik.com/5965507/how-to…

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Dusty Ventures > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 10/31/2013 at 21:49

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So I'm back home and can now answer any questions you have about getting started rallying. Where would you like to start?

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Dusty Ventures 11/01/2013 at 01:18

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Honestly...is it hard to get into rally? What all do you need? What type of experience do you need?

Dusty Ventures > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 11/01/2013 at 05:05

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Honestly...is it hard to get into rally? What all do you need? What type of experience do you need?

Ok, so to start I want to ask you a question. Have you ever attended a rally in any capacity?

What you need depends on your goals. If you're dead set upon specifically being a driver (as most are) and the most important thing to you starting off is to just get on stage you need a rally-legal car, safety gear, a co-driver, and a rally license. No previous racing experience or rally attendance necessary (though you will want to be intimately familiar with the rulebook). Nearly any car can be made rally legal, so long as it has a cage built to competition spec and all the necessary safety regulations. That said you'll save yourself a shit-ton of headache by buying a car that's already built. There are quite a few used rally cars out there. Either way expect to spend at least $6-10,000 on the car before you're ready to race. Safety gear is your standard helmet, neck restraint, suit deal, like most racing series. The license, despite being called a "license," doesn't require any kind of training or tests. It's really more of a membership, pay the annual fee and it's yours. As a driver expect events to cost about $2,500 each. Entry fee alone is $600-1000, add to that fuel, lodging, meals, etc and it piles up. Despite what people seem to believe there aren't companies sitting around waiting to sponsor a rally driver, there aren't teams looking to hire drivers to race their cars, and there's no prize money, so as the driver expect to be covering most if not all of your racing expenses for your entire rally career. That said you'll know it was worth every penny the moment you enter that first stage.

Expanding from there, if you want to challenge for podiums and such you should attend a rally school. I'd suggest at least a three day class. The techniques you'll learn there are endlessly valuable, both on stage and just driving on the road. You also want to get a small service crew together, even if it's just one or two guys. Find people who are familiar with the kind of car you're racing, both so they can fix any problems during the race quickly and so between races they can help make it as good as possible. Be prepared to cover their lodging and meals along with your own.

On the other side of the coin if you want to get in a rally car and you don't really care which side of the car you're on then it's hard to beat co-driving . Starting off you'll be covering your share of the lodging and your own meals, but once you've done a few events and established your skills drivers see you as an investment, like a good suspension or a good set of tires. Once you reach that point the only expenses you'll have are keeping your competition licenses up to date, replacing your safety gear as needed, and keeping your bag stocked with pens, pencils, sharpies, and high lighters. Drivers typically cover co-driver event expenses, and the really good co-drivers (the ones with a decade or more under their belts) even get paid to co-drive. I've heard of some making as much as $4,000+ in a weekend. Me personally, I've done six events this season and, not including a new suit and making the final payments on my neck restraint, I've spent maybe $350 on the year, including licenses, which is about $0.75 per stage mile. Hard to beat that.

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The challenge with co-driving is unlike driving you can't just assemble your equipment, show up, and go racing. You need to convince a driver that putting you in the right seat and having you call notes isn't akin to being a kamikaze pilot. This means attending events in lesser capacities. Spectate, volunteer to work out on the stages, volunteer to be on a team's pit crew. Do whatever it takes to maximize time spent around competitors so they can get to know you and get a feel for you. Convince them you've got the determination, the knowledge, and the attention to detail and someone will give you a shot (protip: check which drivers in the back half of the field seem to have a different co-driver every event. They're your best bet). Once you've tricked the first gullible fool to stick you in their car finding subsequent rides should be much easier.

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That ended up being much longer than intended but hopefully it helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Dusty Ventures 11/01/2013 at 11:24

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This is amazing. I've never gotten such a comprehensive response before. I don't really know what else to say other than Thank you! I think that someday I'll be able to do this either as a driver or co-driver. Hell, maybe I'll give both a shot! Once again, thank you and I look forward to someday my future team racing yours!

Dusty Ventures > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 11/01/2013 at 12:47

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Glad to help. I look forward to seeing you out there!